Office Hours 2024-09-17

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Eliot: [00:00:00] Hey! How you doing? Good, good. All right, let's see. I have, let me see if I've heard back from the uh, Z Cam guys. 

Joe: Yeah, somebody left a message on, uh, some, somebody hadn't posted a response to that. 

Eliot: Yeah, I saw, I saw that. I looked at it a little bit and it's, you know, the, they're, they're, what I'm hoping to get and I, I contacted actually was the, uh, one of the guys we know, our Dan over at, um, at Axiom knows the head of, uh, Z Cam.

Uh, so I actually, uh, sent, sent him a note and asked, asking about, cause I. I get it. You know, someone backward engineered it and they did 15 different ways. And I'm like, okay, okay. That's I want the official, like ding, you know, like a shiny bow on it. It's worth waiting for a day or two to get, get the, you know, just get it exactly correct.

And that way we're not, we're not like chasing, chasing our tail on, on, on this kind of stuff. [00:01:00] But yeah, so it sounds like you were, have you been doing some 360 captures? 

Joe: Yeah. So I did, I mean, it was a pretty simple one. I didn't do a complex one. I actually tried to do it with, um, like actually something used like that I'd like to use.

Um, so this was the product shot for just like the Intel computer that we're using, like, you know, they're like, Oh, you know, it's like, actually maybe that could be a perfect thing for me to test. So I just got, I did one like hand handheld version. And then I did one like on a slider, like a smoother one.

Um, so I did two takes and I uploaded both those takes with the jets with the three 60. Um, it should be all synced. So I just wanted to make sure that I sent that to you and that is like everything you need. 

Eliot: All right. Let me, let me look for that. Uh, let's see 

Joe: what we have here. Yeah. I just thought, I think I needed to take it out of like the theoretical world of like testing and actually try something where I'm like, okay, I actually need this to work.

And I think like, [00:02:00] 

Eliot: right, right. Let's see how it's going to, how it's going to work. Okay. So just send that to, okay.

Did you send that to my email? Yeah. To your email. All right. There it is. Oh, wait, there we go. Um, I've got the response there. You 

Joe: and I can give you some time code markers also for like moments from the shot that if that's helpful, um, you know, 

Eliot: can you wait a sec? Can you send that? Because I've got the, the one on, let's see a while back where you sent the, um, it takes it from a previous one.

Um, that was a different one. 

Joe: Oh, yeah, let me see here. Um, yes.[00:03:00] 

Uh, here, I'll just reset it 

Eliot: now.

Okay. 

Joe: Um, oh, shoot. I guess I didn't paste the link in there. That would probably help. Maybe. Just maybe. Sudo.

Yeah, 

Eliot: there we go. Share link.[00:04:00] 

Okay, cool. Just pasting it in.

Zoom is in. Alright, let me look at the chat. Oh, no. Is it, is it in email? Yeah, it's in an email.

There we go. There's a good plan. Okay. There's a dropbox. Alright. Hey, there's a, that looks like a 360. Yes, sir. So there should be two of them. Um, 

Joe: just to, uh, here and I can I'll share my screen here and just kind of show you quick what, um, what it is while you're downloading. 

Eliot: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What's up? It's gonna take me a while to go through it.

Like, there's gonna be one of 

Joe: them. One of them [00:05:00] didn't sync automatically. I just, I just saw the first clip synced automatically. The second one didn't for some reason. I don't know why. Um, there are Roku markers there. And it was, so I'm not sure why that is. Interesting. Okay. But here is the, so this is what, so these marks are just kind of like the frame markers here, just like straightforward stuff.

Nothing crazy. Um, okay, see this. So, so this is just like, you know, like just one moment where it's like, I'd like to put like, maybe like their logo. Right. I mean, I can do all of this without the three 60 and you know what I mean? Like, this is like way overkill, but it's fun. Right. It's fun. Yeah. I mean, it's, it's, it's just like, you know, so there's a little bit of a wider shot, um, and then, uh, and then just like another, and then this is the one that is like the handheld version.[00:06:00] 

Right. Right. Just kind of trying to test out both again. I, you know, it's not necessary to have done this, but like, like through this way, but I think it's, um, 

Eliot: yeah, I think it's a good test process. That's a good test 

Joe: process. Yeah. Um, and then let's see. Yeah. And then just like another kind of pushing in.

Eliot: Excellent, 

Joe: you know, intentionally just kind of a handheld let I want to see how it reads those micro jitters. 

Eliot: And is this a, is the footage sensitive at all? Do I, if I end up doing like a, if I have to do it to a, like a how to guide or something on this, or should I just figure out another, a different.

Something different to work with. 

Joe: Uh, no, you can use, yeah, no, you should be able to use this. That's fine. Like, I don't care. It's just the, yeah, it's not like it's a prototype laptop or anything. So this is just the one that we were using for there. So if this works for you, go for it. Yeah. 

Eliot: Okay. So you want to make sure it's not a, Like, yeah, no, it's not proprietary or, 

Joe: uh, [00:07:00] 

Eliot: type, type, type of fair.

Uh, let me, uh, pull this up and I'm going to start, is this okay enough 

Joe: for you? Do you think this will like, you know, 

Eliot: this is great. I mean, like this is, you know, I'll, I'll, we'll go through is, is, uh, I made down, let me start all these things downloading. Cause they're, they're mighty. Let me start getting this stuff going in the right spot.

But this is, this is perfect. This is exactly the kind of thing that's. It's very useful to, because then it's, then it's real, you know, and I, you know, like, this is. I'm not in a, uh, set up where I can shoot this stuff that easily. So it's great to get all these things downloading. All right. And there we go.

Ideally, 

Joe: I'd love to put it on something. You know what I mean? Like that's the thing is it's like on some kind of pedestally thing and like looking cool and blah, blah, blah. Yeah. Yeah. 

Eliot: All the, all the usual stuff. 

Joe: Yeah, exactly. So, you know, um, Yeah, feel free to use like feel free to use this as [00:08:00] much as you want because in reality, I'm probably going to re I want to reshoot this on the led stage.

Oh, um, but like yeah I mean but but like going through it this way doing this like I was hoping to show this to them, so that I can try to do it on set. Otherwise, yeah. What are you wasting time doing? Like, what is this, you know? So, um, I want to be like, look. 

Eliot: Yeah. Yeah. And, and, and realistically, this is going to be me and the bowels of synth eyes.

Like, you know, like, there's, there's this sound of like jackhammers going for a few days because it's, uh, there there's, I know the techniques in it. It's like multitrack kind of stuff, but it's also gnarly, you know, and I, what I'm going to want to do is, is, you know, not just sort of do it, but like figure out how we can roll it into the scripting system so that it's, that it's sort of all of a piece, uh, so that then you, you have these pieces and it comes together, you know, as fast as it does with all, all the other pieces.

Yeah, that's, 

Joe: that's [00:09:00] why I was, I know how your brain thinks like that. And you're like, okay, if we're going to introduce this functionality, then it's got to be like, Yeah. Yeah. Let's, let's, let's, we've gotta be able to deliver the system to people. So I, I'm, I'm a hundred percent with you. Yeah, it 

Eliot: should be.

That should be, it should be. Great. All thank you. Thank you very much for, for, uh, for shooting this. Uh, I'll start, I'll download it and start, start working my, my way through it. Oh, 

Joe: my pleasure. 

Eliot: And I'll hopefully we'll look back from Z Cam and that'll, that'll be one more, one more thing. Uh, fix and, and running.

And, uh, and I, yeah, and I also, okay, I also need to getting the after effects stuff into 3d. So we have a USD exporter. I need to go, go work on, on figuring out it was close, but it wasn't quite there. And so I have to go figure out what line in the USD, you know, is borking so that, uh, yeah, so that scale is not, not correct, but I'll get those.

That's all fine. Um, all right. Fantastic. 

Joe: Is there, um, is there any way, cause I would love to maybe try to like troubleshoot this just to make [00:10:00] sure, cause I'm also wanting to make sure that I like I'm doing it all right and capturing everything right. Um, which I think I am. Um, just like, sometimes I just get so like in the loop, uh, like, yeah.

I, I, is there a way that we can like, just test something out with this now, just to see if, Like even without using, cause I know that's like trying to bring the 360 into it. Oh yeah. Yeah. We can, 

Eliot: we can pull the, uh, uh, let me see if it's, it's like pause some of these other things, um, so I can get one of these takes down, you know, pause, pause, let me just pause the, um, 

Joe: I mean, I can, we can wait until it's done downloading to it, if you prefer.

That's fine too. 

Eliot: All right. Let's see how fast I'm going to be able to get, get this. It is. All right, it is not going to be super fast. Dropbox is, is, uh, is lagging a little bit. Um, I should, uh, I should, why is that one? That should not be paused. [00:11:00] Look at what's going on here. Um, like this. Resume. Okay. Let's see if this one's going to work.

All right.

Yeah. It's going to be a while. It's telling me it's going to be an hour to get some of this. So I have Fiverr, but sometimes the external services, you know, throttles, throttles stuff. So I think Dropbox is saying you can download this at a certain speed, but no further. 

Joe: So that's what you get. 

Eliot: Um, should I just 

Joe: share my screen then?

I can just share my screen. Yeah, go 

Eliot: for it. We can just walk through, walk through the shot and see if we got the scan and the, the main, main pieces all up there. Let's just, let's just do it. Cool. 

Joe: Thank you. Oh, wait, let me share the whole screen.[00:12:00] 

Okay. Can, are you seeing all of this? Yeah, I see it. All right. Okay. So, uh, I guess let's, I guess let's just do the first take since that's the one that like syncs. Uh, sure. It's already, um, boom. There it is. Okay. So I think this is all good. So should we go to unreal blender? Does that matter for now? 

Eliot: We can just test it in blender.

I usually, usually test things in blender. Okay. Okay, cool. Um, 

Joe: and then, so I think from that, let's see. So,

and this was just like, this is just, I just made like a, uh, this is where I set my point for project set. See, 

Eliot: this is, hang on, this is, this is good timing. Lemme check to see, uh, if we have the updated, oh, did I already send you an updated build [00:13:00] of auto shot yesterday? Yes. Uh, okay. Okay. So you're on, on a most recent one.

Okay. Um, 

Joe: yeah, I'm on my auto shot now. Is. 0. 147. 

Eliot: 0. 147. Okay, great. That's, that's good. Um, I think that's mine too. Yes. All right. So we're on the same. So in this case, actually, what we're going to want to do is, um, because it'll actually open up Blender for you. Go ahead and next to the, oh, yeah, that's right.

Joe: It did that actually. Cause I, I, I think I did import this. Hold on. Let me see. Did it already? Oh yeah, I did. It just called it this. Okay. So here I had imported it. That's right. So I imported it into Blender and, uh, and here is where, so I did the import step. That's all that I did yesterday. 

Eliot: All right. And do you have the scan?

Joe: Um, so yeah, the scan should be here. Let's see. Yeah, there it 

Eliot: is. Just, let's just enable the visibility. There we go. And then let's, um, uh, hit a number pad zero so we can frame up on it. That's okay. Make sure our scans aligned up. [00:14:00] 

Joe: Oh, wait, that's the bedroom? Is that the bedroom? Yeah, why is Huh. Why did it bring that?

Scan it. Because I re scanned it. 

Eliot: That looks like a laptop. Um, oh, I see. I see what's going on. Uh, go ahead. Uh, go to the upper right hand corner of, uh, let me grab my little, uh, annotate. And uh, right now you're seeing a view of the viewport compositor, I think, over things. So go ahead and click. Yeah, click that, that pull down button there.

Okay. All right. Uh, and, um, actually, I'm sorry, uh, upper right hand corner, there is four little spheres in a row of your main viewport window. Uh, actually, yeah, there we go. And there's a little pull down menu to the right of those, a little down tilde. Okay, okay, so the compositor is off. Um, okay, that's a little weird.

Um, 

Joe: yeah, that looks like it's my bedroom. I didn't change the project. This was still just because I didn't, uh, I, I didn't, uh, it was like too late. I didn't do the [00:15:00] recalibration because every time that's like another thing too that I was wondering. Anytime I start a new project, it doesn't store the lens calibration.

So that was like just something that would be cool at that. Like. Transferred across, um, just like in general, just because every time I started a new project, I'm like, Oh, I had to calibrate again, even though it's the same lens, 

Eliot: right? Yeah. That's, that's one of those, uh, things that would be very, you, you can copy them as just sort of a manual process on this, actually, it looks like you have the scan of the laptop.

It just looks like things are a little off. This is something I saw earlier. I want to check on something. Um, so let's go to auto shot. Um, and I'm going to write down, cause I think I've, Okay. So right now we have a Sydney focal length is 60. 59 degrees. Okay. Um, let's go ahead and. Uh, click resolve. I want to resolve this and then I want to, want to regenerate the, the frame.

[00:16:00] Um,

all right. And then go ahead and exit out of blender. And then what we're, we're going to rerun the, uh, regenerate it with a, I want to, it should be aligned up very precisely and I won't, if it's not, I want to understand why. Is 

Joe: it helpful if I do the wider shot, the full body, the full of the laptop? 

Eliot: And you know, if it's, if it's a scan, then it should just be, should be lining up.

Um, it shouldn't matter that much what the, uh, whether it's a wide, um, cause right now it's looking like it's a, it's actually a pretty wide field of view lens. Like that's a 60 degree field of view. So that's, that's like a 21. Uh, it's 

Joe: a 25 millimeter. Okay. Yeah. So it's, and it's okay that it's generally like off, like it says 21.

3, even though it's really 25. 

Eliot: Yeah. That, that [00:17:00] part doesn't worry me so much. We're going to add in something where we can, you can set the, the, the, uh, sensor size. Um, to, you know, the, the, one of the correct sensor size presets. Um, the key thing is that there's the field of view, the horizontal field of view.

That's the part that's. That is, um, that, that tells you if things are going to line up. Um, 

Joe: yeah, having a setting to just be like super 35 full frame, you know what I mean? Black, you know, black magic, black magic. Yeah. Yeah. Would be really great. All right. So finish the 

Eliot: calibration. I'm 

Joe: like, wait, do I use the full width of my sensor size?

Do I use the crud? Cause I shoot super 35 for the cinema lenses. So it's like, okay, well that's only super 35, but so yeah. Right. Right. There's a million 

Eliot: little. Uh, let's go ahead and click save and run on the, on the, for the blender thing. I want to, I want to understand that should be aligning very closely.[00:18:00] 

There we go. There we go. That's more like it. 

Joe: Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Even though it looks like it's further away. 

Eliot: Uh, yeah, that is, um, that is just where the, the LIDAR shot to it. So it looks like the LIDAR hit missed the, uh, missed the, the phone and, or missed the, uh, the laptop and hit the, uh, hit the back.

Right. Uh, hit the 

Joe: green screen, hit the 

Eliot: green screen back wall. Okay. Okay. So if we hit, uh, frame, uh, frame up on frame zero, uh, I'm sorry, the numpad zero to kind of frame up on that. Here we go. Okay. So let's, let's, uh, scroll through that. Let's just make sure that it's reasonably close. It's, it's, you know, it won't be exact, but it should be, uh, staying reasonably close through this.

Yeah, there we go. Yeah. That's more like it. That's more like it now. Now we're in the realm of realm of accuracy. Um, I do want to understand why sometimes it's coming through, like, but I'm, what I'm seeing is if, if I get the project and I, even though it has a [00:19:00] solve and I run it, if I don't hit resolve, then it sometimes gives me these inaccurate results and I, I'm still chasing that down where that would be, or that would be occurring, but okay, now at least we're, you know, the world makes sense.

Okay. So that, that's, I mean, that's good. That's, that's a, then, then you have your, your 3d and let's, uh, walk through the scene. It looks like that's the correct scale. Laptop. 

Joe: One thing I did notice was a radical like shift in like, it like jumps right there. See that? Oh, 

Eliot: Oh, you know what's going on. Okay. I tell you exactly what's going on is.

So the LIDAR is like on top of the phone and it's shooting out. And it says, Oh, the thing that I'm looking at is, is this background wall. And then as you moved on to it, it says, Oh, wait, no, the subject is actually the laptop and it, and it shots the, that's, what's going, that's, what's going on there. Okay.

Um, 

Joe: yeah, cause that was, I was like, ah, 

Eliot: yeah, no, no, that's, that's, that's just the, the real time. [00:20:00] This is what you, you know, you have an AI focus polar right now. Once in a while, it's, it's, uh, really smart. And sometimes it's, it's going, is it the background or the laptop and that's, that's, what's going on there.

Um, okay. So that, I mean, that's great. Cause so now, so we've, you've got the basic core pieces of it. And then what I'm going to end up doing is. Is that the motion 

Joe: is right though? It's just the lidar thing that's messed up. So that's not really like That's not like a jump in the track. 

Eliot: Yeah, that's not a jump in the track.

All it is is the way um The way the depth is set in that and you can actually manually set it if you if you want if you want to if You're curious about this. So yeah, actually Okay, so let's let's go click on the because we're 

Joe: gonna have to to reset it to get it onto the laptop Right to get it off the plane.

Yeah. 

Eliot: Yeah, so go ahead and Let me see if I can find, I've been unable to find an annotate button in my entire time with this version of zoom. And I don't understand where, uh, where they have [00:21:00] now put it. Uh, Oh, there we go. Is this going to annotate? Ah, there it is. I just found it. First time I found it. Woo.

Lower left hand corner. Okay. I remember that. All right. So what we're going to want to do is go ahead and open up the spinner here. Uh, yeah. There we go. 

Joe: Uh oh, there you go. Okay. Awesome. Yeah, this guy. Oh, this is so good that you can do this right now. This, 

Eliot: yeah. There we go. . And, and then we open up that and what's, what's, and Oh, where's your, oh, I'm sorry.

Open up the camera. . There we go. And open the ca and there now, and highlight on the z lib. Uh, the, um, uh, there it is. This, uh, this guy. Which is the actual image plane, the Z L underscore, whatever. So go ahead and click on that and highlight that. And so it looks, that looks like that's highlighted. Um, and then what we're going to go down is let's go to the object panel for that.

And what you see here is that it's has a scale reference. And so what we can do is just highlight that [00:22:00] and a right click. And I think it's like shift I or something to delete all the key frames. Clear keyframes. Okay, so now what you can do is, what this still highlighted, move your cursor over here, hit S.

Joe: Uh, move it over here. Oh, actually, 

Eliot: yeah, just move, move the actual cursor over into your, into your, the middle plane here. Type S, and then you can, it'll, it'll scale back and forth. This is the blender scale command. So as you, right. So now the cool thing is that you'll notice that the scale, yeah, the side, we borrowed, it's like, 

Joe: Oh, it stays in perspective with the camera.

Bucking G. Oh shit. What just happened? 

Eliot: Oh, that's all right. You just jumped over to, uh, to, uh, auto shot and go back to blender. 

Joe: Oh no. I think it crashed. 

Eliot: Oh, blender crash. Oh, that's not good. All right. Let's go back to it. 

Joe: Okay, but that was cool. All right. Sweet. 

Eliot: Yeah. Borrowed that from Ian Hubert, where he just has the, the [00:23:00] parent is, is the, uh, the parent of that plan.

So you just go, go back and open that up. Go open up the camera. There's your, your image plane. Uh, go ahead and highlight that guy. Yep, there's the guy, object, uh, there it is, and you're gonna, uh, you'll need, yeah, you'll need to delete the keyframes because otherwise you're going to change one frame it's going to pop back to the old one, so, otherwise, so, like, why is it popping back?

Because every single frame is keyframed, it'll go boing, 

Joe: yes, yes, yes, okay, so, oops, so 

Eliot: Right click on that and it's like clear keyframes something like that 

Joe: right quick There you 

Eliot: go. Now you can go into the main main area and with that highlighted type s And then, yeah, there you can scale it back and forth.

Joe: Okay, so let's get around there. I guess it looks okay. 

Eliot: Yeah, that's good. Okay. All right. And now [00:24:00] if you hit O, number pad zero, you'll go back to your, uh, the original camera framing. Uh, it'll frame that up in the scene. There we go. And now you're, now you're kind of, you should be kind of reasonably locked in.

Joe: That is awesome. Okay. 

Eliot: Geometry for the win. 

Joe: Geometry for the win. Okay. Very cool. Okay. So, okay. So now, okay. So this is working so far. Okay. So now this is where I want to get, Practical use, like now I want to like spice it up, put something on here and like track something in. So would I, I guess if I was going to, I guess that would be more of an after effects thing for me now.

Um, yeah, you can, I guess that I could just start building in blender here. Right. I mean, and then everything would just be tracked. So it's like, I could just do it all in here. Okay. 

Eliot: Yeah. And the way to think about it is it all, it comes down to precision. Um, [00:25:00] if you, if you don't need set pixel precision, you can just build stuff out and like, if you have this, this, this, you know, cameras kind of going around, uh, you know.

Going through the scene and you're not seeing, uh, like that, like pixel to pixel contact. You can just build in blender, render it, and then comp it and great, you're done. When you, with this particular case, it's a screen replacement. That is a sub pixel track. Um, and so for that, we're actually going to want to, if you, if we're going to do this in 3D, we're going to, we're going to want to take it through SynthEyes and get a, and get a lock into it.

And, uh, and you know, some cases like it's, it's simpler actually just do a screen replacement, but we can, you know, this, this is a good example of, of trying, you know, we'll go through it and, and, uh, and get the, uh, get the solve to work. And that way you should have all the pieces together. 

Joe: Great. And right.

So I guess this is where I'm trying to like, figure out this is, this is like perfect, that's why I wanted to actually do it with like something that is like real, 

Eliot: right? 

Joe: So I would then take this to synth eyes, track it in there. Then do I bring it back to blender with that new tracking information or from blender or from [00:26:00] synth eyes, then I just send it to after effects or like, it 

Eliot: depends what you want to build.

If you want to add on a bunch of 3d elements. Then yeah, we'll pull it back into blender and then you can render it, render out your frames and stuff like that. Uh, if you're going to do a pure 2d, or if you're going to do, uh, build your elements in, in after effects, you can bring in after effects, you know, whichever one is, you know, where are you going to build stuff?

Then that's probably where you, where you, where you do it. Okay. So that's, you know, it just kind of depends on what you're. If you're going to do be doing a bunch of screen graphics and things like that, then that's probably more of an after effects thing. If you're going to be building a digital, so for this one, I'd almost say you'll, you have two separate things.

One is the, the, the 3d background behind the chair on the pedestal. That's probably blender. And actually, you know, that's probably the tracking on this is probably good enough for that because you don't have a visible scene. So you can just build this in blender and render the frames. And, uh, and then for the, the actual screen replacement part of it, I would tend to just do that in after effects, just because It's designed for doing exactly [00:27:00] that.

Joe: Yeah, right, yeah. 

Eliot: Great. So then, 

Joe: yeah, 

Eliot: then you're just kind of splitting up the, the, the problem and then you're kind of compositing the layers and that should be pretty sweet. So, 

Joe: that was, okay, so if, if we could kind of maybe just take, cause my, my issue that I've had is that I'll render stuff out of here.

And then I'll bring it back into premiere to like sandwich over and do that. And it doesn't, it doesn't match. 

Eliot: Oh, okay. Like, 

Joe: uh, like it's like every time I'm always like, oh, it's working. And then I get to a thing. I'm like, damn it. What the, um, yeah, yeah. Let's try it out. Okay. So. All right. So I got this in blender here now.

So I, can we do this? What we just did in unreal, just because unreal faster environment, just like I already have an environment in unreal. Okay, cool. So I'm just going to save this here and I'm going to come back to this. Cause this is actually. This is how I like learn well, um, is like, I need something to do and it's like, all right, because I'm going to, it'll be the perfect thing.

Let's do it in Unreal because then I'm going to watch the Unreal to Blender [00:28:00] tutorial that you gave me and then get what I made in Unreal, send that. So I'm getting practice doing both of those things. 

Eliot: Yeah. Yeah. You kind of go through the processes of it. Yeah. 

Joe: Okay, cool. So here, let me open up Unrizzled.

And then cool. Yeah. Yeah. Cause if we could do this, like, cause I already have the world built out and then yeah. Cause I'm really realizing that's my main utility with projects and jobs that I'm doing. It's making everything talk to each other. 

Eliot: Right. 

Joe: That's where I'm really seeing like my value in the ecosystem of a lot of places that I'm working.

Cause it's like, I'm not like a major crazy 3D artist. It's like, I'm more of a director. But to be a better director, I want to understand this. And I realized like the added value that I can bring is, Hey, I know how all this stuff talks to each other. So like when we have a team, great, I know how to send this to my 3d guys with cinema 4d or blender.

Right. Great. This one could go to the unreal. Cool. We need these, um, [00:29:00] 2d things. Great. We'll send that to after effects. And then I know how to bring it all together because that's how it's going to be, that's the only way it'll be like affordable to bring into like a current Like environment. And what I mean by that is like, cause I was working with Uproxx and all like, I'm doing this and I'm seeing this and like, right.

They have the money to hire an artist to do a specific thing, but they do not have Like to pay somebody, each person to bring it all together. I'm like, okay, the only, what makes it all work for them is that I know how to do it. And I currently don't, but I'm getting closer. Oh yeah, 

Eliot: exactly. 

Joe: You know what I mean?

And I know other people are going to be in that situation where they're trying to like, how do I introduce this into this company that I'm working with? It's like, well, they're not going to do it if it comes with, well, we need to hire five people who each handle, It's not going to work. 

Eliot: This, this is exactly it.

This is, and I've, I've had this discussion multiple times where the producer wants to have a person they call like, and then they just handle it. [00:30:00] Right. And that's, that's, that's trying to be 

Joe: that person. That's exactly. And I'm trying to be that person who it's like, I'm the front interface. And then everything under the hood is happening with like the people who I'm sending it out.

And like, they don't need any of that. They don't want to know anything about that. So that's why for me, I'm like, very like particular because, you know, uh, you get to a point where quite honestly, you get past a point where you can recover from professional embarrassment, quite honestly, you know what I mean?

And you're like, okay, if this fucks like, I only get one shot to show it off and I got to make sure it's in my bones. 

Eliot: Right, right. 

Joe: So, uh, but this is like, yeah, and I feel like I'm sure there are people who were probably initially thrown off by like, oh, this looks so difficult and crazy, but I don't think it is.

I think it's just, there's little things that we're just working through now and it will be straightforward, especially with the additions you guys are like working on. Yeah, yeah. Let me, okay, here, [00:31:00] showcase map. 

Eliot: And I think you're exactly right, because traditionally this stuff was handled by a facility.

Joe: Exactly. 

Eliot: Right. Okay. And then as soon as you have a facility, then the cost is like, is, you know, this, right? And so that's why 

Joe: people are wary about it. That's why, because they're only experienced with stuff like this. They're like, uh, I've only noticed in the teams of people. And now you're telling me I can just bring you on and there's, and this use the software and it just magically takes care of all.

So it's like, there's a little skepticism, but I'm like, but I keep telling them, I'm like, yes, actually. Yeah. 

Eliot: Yeah, you want to get the reps in and, and, you know, so you're used to it. Exactly 

Joe: right. I'm doing, I'm getting my gym reps in. Um, okay, so here we go. Um, this was from just like a previous, this was the one, the live feed that I had been trying to get through.

Um, I'm sure, uh, I, I know the, you guys were, had the deck link come in. 

Eliot: Yes. Yeah. That's finally back. 

Joe: Get that working. Um, okay, so here we go. So we can [00:32:00] just use this. I'll just place the laptop on this stone here. 

Eliot: Okay, Scene Locator Fireplace, that's fine. We'll 

Joe: go to, yeah, yeah, just something like that. Um, and let's, so we'll come here.

Eliot: Yeah, go to Unreal, and instead of the Scene Locator Tabletop, you're going to want to put it on the Scene Locator Underscore Fireplace. Because the tabletop is where it was on the original scene. 

Joe: Oh, okay, so I should make a new 

Eliot: Well, what we're going to be doing is, if we're going to re target it to the one in Unreal, like the Scene Locator Fireplace, um, The right now auto shot doesn't know about that yet.

So you're going to just have to type over tabletop. You're just gonna have to type a fireplace and that'll, that'll be the, the override. 

Joe: Oh, that's cool. I didn't even know you could do that. Yeah, that's amazing. This is awesome. These are the little, because yeah, then, then that's the other stuff that I want.

It's like, Oh, okay. One, I want to switch something or like use this camera track from another wrong project and like, Oh, okay. Instead of redoing it. You know, and you guys have done pretty well with like making sure you're not doing that, but it happens, right? Yeah. [00:33:00] Um, okay, cool. So scene fireplace, got it.

Oh, see fireplace one. Um, okay. And 

Eliot: on your gamut color, that looks like you have, are you V log V gamut? Is it a. Oh, okay. So it's a Panasonic. 

Joe: Well, no, this is still the Z cam. 

Eliot: Oh, okay. Okay. Okay. I would say I 

Joe: just, uh, 

Eliot: have a kind of a placeholder let, yeah. Yeah. I just did a 

Joe: placeholder. I was like, all right, I guess maybe, 

Eliot: right.

We'll just, we'll just, you know, kind of do this for the time being. You know, it 

Joe: works and you 

Eliot: can leave it at the, uh, on this one, I'd actually tend to leave the resolution at, at default, uh, okay. Camerage, no, 

Joe: which will, which came original is four K. 

Eliot: Oh, okay. All right. So that's, that's, I think that's fine.

Um, and what, what it's, what it's, um, what that one does is it actually is setting the rendering resolution. Um, let me just stop and remember how we do this, except I don't think we transfer this unreal is a little bit weird because you try to render too big, it, it, it dies. Um, 

Joe: I remember you mentioning that.

Eliot: [00:34:00] Yeah. Um, give me just a second to remember, remember how we're doing this. I think this is okay. I think we'll, we'll, let's, let's try this and then we'll, I'm going to make a couple notes to try to remember a couple of those details. 

Joe: Save and run it? 

Eliot: Yep. Go ahead and save and run. There we go. There we go.

And then paste that into the Unreal Editor.

There we go. All right. So let's see. Yeah, there's streaming data. And then let's go find our, um, okay, let's go to, there we go. There's a level sequence. That looks like a plan. It 

Joe: just put it right there. 

Eliot: Yep. It does the logical thing. It drops, you know, you know, what you had your onset origin. Yeah. Now this is 

Joe: so cool.

Okay. This feels so good. Um, uh, okay, cool. So here, uh, let me just find where all these pieces are. 

Eliot: And we can [00:35:00] hide, like, you know, you have your scan mesh there and we can hide it and I can show you a little bit of how to, how to do some of that real quick in the, uh, Uh, cause you, yeah, you can do it there.

You can also do it in the level sequence. Um, so in the sequencer, if you scroll down, yeah, there you go. There's, there's, there's your, uh, and if you scroll down and the, the, the objects on the left, um, there's a list of all the objects in the sequencer. You can actually just right now there's a spawned thing.

You can just click click on spawn. Boom. You know, they go. And so that was the, uh, 

Joe: oh yeah, let's look, 

Eliot: grab the, uh, let's grab the, not the, or, oh yeah, that one, that one is fine. That was the, um, okay. So that was the, the scan. There you go. And so there, there you go. That is, you have a, um, There is your, your scene and you'll track through that.

So now remember that is the original unmodified, uh, the depth data and in unreal, we can do the same sort of thing, right? So we can actually go, uh, let me move my, let me grab my transform thing over [00:36:00] here. Okay. I can put it up. Oh, good. I can move this up over here. Okay. So the way we do the same thing as we did in blender is under your image plane over here, uh, there is a transform track.

So we can open up our transform track and it's exactly the same concepts, but just in different spots. So in this case, we, we looked at our scale. Yeah. And it's, you know, it's okay. Let me stop and remember. Oh, that's right. And then real, it's a little bit different. It's, it's a location. So we can actually drag around our location, uh, things and you can select all of those.

There's probably a better way to do this than, than dragging through all of them. But that's, that's the one I know about. Um, you can just lasso select them all. There you go. And you can delete all the location ones. There you go. And then you click on, uh, you highlight the, um, uh, the, the, uh, image plane.

It's a, a little bit upwards in the, in your, there you go. Highlight the image plane and over on the right in your details panel, uh, you can actually see the location [00:37:00] and you're just going to drag, uh, that, that, that value out a little bit to the right. And go ahead and drag it. Look, there it goes. Boom.

Same thing. Yup. Exact same concept. Where is that 

Joe: coming from? Is that coming from the camera? Like where, like where, Oh, okay. Yeah. So it was coming out of the camera. Like it was still there. Okay, cool. That's why I couldn't see it. 

Eliot: Yeah. Same, same thing. And then if you want it to stay put, then you can pick out a spot and I would, you can put a key frame, probably on frame zero, it'll, it won't do, do weird things.

Uh, right. Okay. So if I can 

Joe: angle it, like, let's say I want it to be directly over the middle. So that looks right around the middle. Uh, okay, and then keyframe that? 

Eliot: Yeah, just make sure you move your timeline to your frame. I think it's shift up, uh, to your, to go to this top, the, the first frame. Maybe up arrow, whatever, there it is, yeah.

And, uh, there we go. And then just go click a, um, click a keyframe button, this is right there. Add a keyframe, that's it. Now add it, now add it to your [00:38:00] keyframe and it'll stay put. 

Joe: Okay. Okay. Pretty fucking badass. Now we can key it if you want. 

Eliot: What's up? We can key it if you want. 

Joe: Yeah, no, that, I was gonna say, so, okay, great, and if I want it to be lower, um, right, okay, so then this went with the garbage mat issue, right?

And like, lowering, like, if I want to, like, place it on there, um, I'll let you know, you need to have something, um, So 

Eliot: you can move, okay, so this is a cool concept, and this is a crazy thing, so Can I 

Joe: create like a new camera actor and like parent it to that? Is that the best way to do that? 

Eliot: If you want to adjust the, um, adjust the position of your, of this in 3D space Just like the whole 

Joe: thing, so it's like if I want to take the whole thing and make it lower 

Eliot: Okay.

Joe: Like, 'cause right now it's exploding above that. You know, it's like I could raise this, I could just like, you know, make , there's an easier, 

Eliot: easier way to do it. And so, okay. Awesome. 

Joe: Yeah, 

Eliot: the key thing here is, uh, go ahead and, uh, come over to your, your level sequencer. And this is one of these concepts in [00:39:00] Unreal that, that, and let's scroll down a little bit.

We can, uh, close down there. So down here we have, you have a scene look fireplace. So you go ahead and click on that and look over here. Uh, and they're in your detail plane. So there is a scene look fireplace and there's a lightning bolt next to it. And there's also the original scene look fireplace, the scene.

So when we bring in the level sequence, um, we, we actually, you know, reference the existing scene, locates scene, look fireplace. And, but the one that you bring in the level sequence is spawned. That means it's not the original one. It's created only inside that level sequence. So you can grab ahold of that one.

Is that what the lightning bolt, is that what the lightning bolt means? Yeah, that means they're spawned as part of a level sequence. They don't exist in the normal, they only exist while this level sequence is active. And then after that, they stop existing. So, the cool thing is, if you want to do that, you can actually grab your spawned, uh, uh, scene lobe, uh, fireplace.

You can move it around. Right. Cause everything's parented on top of that. So you've got that correct one 

Joe: straight. [00:40:00] Yep. Okay. 

Eliot: And everything, everything tracks to it. 

Joe: Oh, okay. So that is okay. Yeah. So, right. Cause my scene lock is already by actor that it's parented to you. Okay. Right. So I 

Eliot: believe it should bring the scan along with it.

So we can actually turn on the scan and double check that it's doing that. Uh, the, the, the scan spawn is over here. This guy, there we go. So I believe that little let's, let's double check. Yep. Yeah. It brings it along. Yeah. They're all correctly parented inside the, uh, the level sequence. 

Joe: Brilliant. All right.

Oh man, we're cooking with gas here now. 

Eliot: Now you can bring in your scanning of your scene. You can start dropping in objects on a real, you know, just to correlate with whatever objects you had in a 3d world. Um, yeah. Okay. 

Joe: All right. Okay. Now, now we're, we're, we're cooking here. Okay. So, all right. So let's key this, right?

So. 

Eliot: Yep. 

Joe: Okay. 

Eliot: So there's all 

Joe: that we're going through all this right now. Like this is, I can't tell you how helpful this is. 

Eliot: Oh, no way. This is, this is great. And there's, there's a, there will go through a bunch of steps [00:41:00] and this is all in the, um, uh, in the, uh, the unreal round trip thing. I'll, I'll put the link in this because so, cause later when you go, was that, you know, the material care, I 

Joe: was watching that a bunch too.

Oh good. 

Eliot: Okay. So you got that. Yeah. 

Joe: Yeah. I've got that already. Yeah. Yeah. 

Eliot: So let's just go to the, uh, the content drawer. Um, yeah, content drawer. And then, so if you go to the auto shot, um, top level folder, so we create a, a cut, a custom color, different materials. So we can make the 

Joe: material, 

Eliot: make the material instance.

That's, you know, rename it to something that'll, uh, or you're where you can just, you know, drag it into the, whichever, yeah, laptop. And, uh, and you'll, you'll want to actually name it a little bit according to the take you're going to use. So you can keep track of which ones. 

Joe: Okay. That's a good, that's good.

Eliot: And then you're going to want to drag that, uh, in from the content drawer into whichever take that we're on. Let's see, which take are we on? Uh, we are on, we can actually look at our [00:42:00] levels. 

Joe: One 37, but is there an easy way? What's the easy way to find easy 

Eliot: way is we just pop open the level sequence, the under sequencer.

And let's take a look at the, uh, the unique ID. Yep. Okay. So B a six B B a C six B. Okay. So then let's look for that one under the, uh, 

Joe: yep, 

Eliot: that's it. 

Joe: Cool. So we'll, so, right. So I should get used to putting underscore, uh, zero two nine nine. So I know. Yeah, that's fine. Okay, cool. So boom, we're going to drag that in there.

Eliot: That's it. And then we can double click that guy. And then enable the top two, the color and the key color. And then we're going to, you're going to have to bring up your, your, uh, content drawer again, and we're going to drag and drop, um, that camera texture into the, uh, Into this, and we looked [00:43:00] for a way to script it, and we have not yet figured out how to script that.

Then you can pick your key color, you can just click on that, that one, grab the eyedropper, and, okay, ah, yeah, okay, that's, that's a good place, that's a good place to do it. This is kind of a preview key, you're going to be doing your final keying and, you know, something else, but this is, this will get you there.

Um, alright, and if you want to see a better, right now it's on a sphere, so if you, if you click the plane down here, Um, there we go. Oh, 

Joe: shit. Nice. 

Eliot: That is so 

Joe: helpful. You have no idea. This is like all Lifesaver stuff you're talking about. Like this is all like things. Cause it's like I, you know, yeah.

Especially coming from like a 2D After Effects world. Like these are just the little things. Yeah, it's like 

Eliot: where did they hide it this time? Yeah, exactly. It took me forever. Through this stuff. Um, and you can, you can, you can add some ad adjustment things. You, I usually have enable like the blue, blue weight and the red way.

You can tune those a little bit and get just those tunes, the key a little bit. [00:44:00] Um, and then there's 

Joe: for reference. So it's pretty fine for, um, right. Yeah. But this is where I could be able to. 

Eliot: If you want, um, and we'll just save it, you know, save your settings. Then we can exit out, out of this guy. And then what we're going to do is you're going to highlight that image plate once again, and so that the, uh, so that there you go, so he's already highlighted and you're going to go into the search bar and you're going to type M a T because we want the material.

There it is. That's, and what we're going to do is then we're going to go back to our content drawer 

Joe: and drag, 

Eliot: and drag our key material. And that pow. 

Joe: Oh, yes, 

Eliot: there we go. Now the plan. And then if you want to see that in frame, you can go over here into your, uh, scroll up in your, um, level sequence and we're going to do it.

We're going to lock the camera and I'll, there we go. That's it. That's it. 

Joe: So, let's see, [00:45:00] you don't want to play, huh? Is there a reason it disappears when I 

Eliot: Okay, so this is one of these unsolved mysteries in this, which is that if you click on the, um, uh, If you, uh, click on the, um, let's remove the MAT search.

Uh, yeah, just go ahead is I actually set this thing to by default to not render, uh, actually, wait a sec actor hidden in game somewhere in bright in here is a switch that tells you to not show it when you're rendering, right? And because, uh, wait, that's not, that's check rendered multi pass. I thought it was actor hidden in game.

I have to look at this again. Um, is there another setting in there? And so the reason is that if you just render this thing Um, then I was getting some weird artifacts from the, um, from the time sampling for it. We were able to [00:46:00] render Unreal, render like eight frames for every single one of the, uh, of the camera original frame.

Um, and then if you have, if you try to have the, the image plate in the image plate should not be moving, but it was. There was, there was some things I looked at and I'm like, okay, Unreal is doing some weird stuff. So I actually set it up. If you, if you click the, um, movie render cube over here. And it should be set up to, and you can click the unsaved.

You can click configure. It's already set to right to the correct spot in, um, uh, you know, like in the, um, in your image sequence, uh, in your, um, in your directory, it's going to render to the EXR directory. So you can actually just click go and just tell it to render. And in a lot of cases it's, and right now it's at a 36.

Okay. When you set in auto shot, when you set it to 2160, it's setting the output resolution, not the input resolution. And my guess is you're going to have some problems getting Unreal to render it at UHD. [00:47:00] Normally, you know, yeah, 

Joe: I 

Eliot: think you're going to run into some, some, some, I usually have problems. I mean, maybe somebody who understands Unreal better than I do will.

Uh, you can just bring that out to 1920 by 1080 and, you know, that, that'll save your, save yourself quite a bit of, of time. Um, and, uh, you can click accept down here and then just, you can go ahead and render and just render, render the frames. Cause I, I looked at, and maybe somebody is going to tell me how to, how to solve the, uh, the weird problems I was getting with the, um, Trying to render the image plate along with the background, but it was, it was, I think it was subsampling problems because the image plate doesn't move and the background is moving through the, you know, the eight, eight subsamples.

So it's going to cook through it's going to warm up the frames. Uh, it's going to take its unsweet time to like do it the first time and then it'll start rendering. 

Joe: Oh, I got this. 

Eliot: Oh, that's right. You've got the, you've got your, um, you can hit, you can hit escape. And right now you've got that. I think it's this 

Joe: was from my jet from the [00:48:00] live link.

Eliot: Yeah. So, and that's actually, I 

Joe: don't know why it's rendering when it's off. 

Eliot: Go ahead. And the part that is rendering is actually your. It is the what's it called 

Joe: the image 

Eliot: sequence. It's the media, media, uh, bundle. That's it. So let's go into your content drawer and we'll go under, uh, media. And yeah, there it goes.

There's a media and go into like craft. And then here you made, um, uh, a media. Bundle. And that's, I believe that yeah, Z cam live feed. So let's highlight that. Let's, uh, uh, up in the top menu. Actually, what we can just do is we just move it out of frame. So go ahead and hit F oh, actually that's, you still have your camera is locked in your level sequence.

So go ahead and let's go to the level sequence and we'll unlock our cameras so we can actually. Move in the 3D world. There we go. And then let's go back, highlight the um, uh, the live feed, hit F to [00:49:00] frame it. Let's find out where it is hanging out in the scene. Um 

Joe: Oh, it's because I turned it off, I believe.

Eliot: Yeah, let's Oh, there it is. Ha! There it is. So then we can just move that somewhere else. 

Joe: So there is no way to, uh, I just have to get rid of it in the shot. 

Eliot: Yeah. Just let's, let's move it somewhere else. That's not right. Right. I mean, you can just move it anywhere. It's just a physical object. Yeah. Um, you just have it hang out somewhere else.

So that's not going to be interfering. And I actually don't know how that, how that behaves. When we're rendering, we're rendering in, in, uh, you know, movie render queue, we'll have to try out. So let's go ahead and reframe and let's, uh, And 

Joe: so, and, and it's not like stuck. Is that like normal that it's not like stuck to it exactly?

Or it looks like it's like drifting through the object? 

Eliot: Yeah, that is. This is one of these things we're going to have to render it to kind of see how closely it's [00:50:00] stuck. Uh, if it, if it turns out, this is one of these things where we, we need to, um, we, uh, it's a, that was the thing. 

Joe: I just, I remember when you're on real workflow, when you had the stuffed animal, I was like, oh yeah, that was rock solid.

Um, I've never gotten a result that was that good yet. 

Eliot: Interesting. Interesting. Okay. So I 

Joe: was hoping that like, I was like, okay, this seems to be like. You know, we've got somewhat of a rel, a straight horizon line to just kind of sit it on. 

Eliot: Um, yeah, it's going to behave. All right. Let's, um, 

Joe: should I move it lower?

Maybe I can, maybe I'll, uh, Oh, this is actually good practice for me to remember here. Okay. So I want that the way I would do it. Oh, wait, let me come up and unlock my camera. Then I would just go to, I could just move this scene lock fireplace here. I think, right. I could, yeah. Okay. 

Eliot: Yeah. I can move this around 

Joe: now.

So let's just say, I just want it to be like right at. Yeah, let[00:51:00] 

me get that precise control. I, uh, 

Eliot: yeah, my, my guess is because we have, we have a visible, like the seam is like right there. We probably gonna have to do some post tracking, but let's, let's try it out. Okay. Yeah. Now. 

Joe: Yeah, it's like kind of disappearing in it. Is this, like, should I be doing this after the fact or in here now?

Like, like, should I just, should we just render this and just see what happens first? Yeah, 

Eliot: let's render it, kind of see, see where we're at. Um, let's, let's go back, yeah. And, uh. 

Joe: Oh, so this should all be good. 

Eliot: Yeah, and we may need to have your, your camera, uh, locked again. Yeah. Locked again before we render.

Joe: Okay. 

Eliot: There, there's, there's some details in Movie Render Queue that I don't 

Joe: quite. Oh yeah. This is the stuff where I'm like, okay, this is very unreal specific, like nonsense sometimes. 

Eliot: Yeah. This is. Unreal is amazing, but there are a lot of checkboxes [00:52:00] and they all have to be right. 

Joe: And yeah, that's the thing.

It's like, and if they're not all right, then it just doesn't work. And you're like, uh, I have 78 potential, you know, variables, like, okay. You guys really couldn't have streamlined this? But I guess there's a million potential case uses for it that you just need that many switches to be able to cover all the things that they, people want to be able to do with it, I guess.

Eliot: They 

Joe: come out with a cinema focused version. Or something that is a little bit, because I mean, it's, I'm, I'm kind of a little bit surprised that they haven't already, considering how huge and like how much people are trying to use this for virtual production, even though they're like, well, it's a game engine though.

Like they're very, you know, they're honest about that. They're like, well, this is a video game engine first and foremost, but I'm like, you know, I wish you guys had a, you know, a city workflow and a game workflow. Like, are you trying to just do [00:53:00] cinematics and like things like that? And kind of clear some of those things because I feel like a lot of those toggles are mostly probably for like video game stuff I would imagine.

Eliot: Yeah like that's that's you hit the underlying core of core of the thing is it is a game engine it like you know first and foremost and it is adapted to to cinematic work. Um, all right so then let's try pulling that into a you know Premiere like Premiere is fine or After Effects whatever. Um, and then let's pull in 

Joe: So the best way to find this would be this, right?

To open this? 

Eliot: Yeah, go ahead and open it. And, and actually we're, we're um, Okay, you can just pull in the rendered frames into that. That should be fine. Let's see how that behaves. Right here? 

Joe: Okay. Yep, 

Eliot: render EXR. 

Joe: Uh, so let's see. I will import this. I think you should be able to just import this. Uh, as a media, uh, as an image sequence.

So, let's see. [00:54:00] Uh, copy. This is where you begin to see why you did what you did. 

Eliot: Yep. scripting, . 

Joe: Oh yeah. 

Eliot: You don't care for one shot of two shots, you start to care. 40 shots . 

Joe: Absolutely. Absolutely. Oh, wait, did it just, that's the one frame. Oh, no, it, it did. Okay, good. So now let's see. So this should be, that was on this one and then this should perfectly just match right here.

Okay. That's a good thing. This is good. 

Eliot: Yes. So I need to scale it and 

Joe: yeah, let's do that.

Uh, alrighty.

So that's cool. Okay. That seems to be, Oh, my focus marker must've been off, but [00:55:00] that's okay. I can just re render that later. Um, okay. So. We have this here. Should I put this in after effects 

Eliot: now? Oh, you're improving. Okay. Oh, or you can actually just put it under your, in, uh, put your green screen track on top and yeah, there we go.

And let's just put a key or key on it. Let's just see how we're, how we're doing. 

Joe: Yeah, let's do that.

Eliot: Put a lu, 

Joe: keep the laptop. Like, just do the opposite of that. Somehow. Not, okay. Hold on. Let, let's, let me, maybe I just need to put,

might just [00:56:00] need a, the LUT to work off of first. Yeah, it'll help.

And do you know if 33 or 64 means anything? 

Eliot: Yeah, what it is, it's, it's the, the number of, um, like the QBlot is a bunch of like points in a lookup table, and it's just the number of points in the table. It's kind of how fine grained it is. So I 

Joe: guess you want more the better, I imagine? You know, 

Eliot: I'm still figuring that out.

I think, I think both of them will work fine for what we're doing here. I think it's sort of a precision question. And, uh, 

Joe: what is that?

That is so weird. Okay, let me, I don't really ever do any keying in, uh, we can, we can 

Eliot: get it over in after effects. That's fine. That's fine too. 

Joe: Yeah, but yeah, just to get, 

Eliot: uh, it's [00:57:00] a little strange that it appears to be king inversely. 

Joe: Yeah, that's so odd. 

Eliot: Yeah. Grabbing. 

Joe: That is so weird. Okay, I'm just gonna do this.

I'm just going to send it to he because I guess there's a reason I don't really ever use Premiere for this. Okay, here, we'll just bring this up.

So it looks like I shot everything right. Correct. Like I did the process correctly. 

Eliot: Yeah. So far it looks fine. So far it looks like it's making 

Joe: sure, because this is what I sent you. So I just want to make sure, um, like I didn't do anything wrong and you're not going to be like stuck with 

Eliot: the only thing that was a little bit weird when we first did it is like the focal length was off, then we resolved the focal length and it was correct.

And so there's, there's, I've, I've seen that twice now [00:58:00] and I can't quite identify the pattern cause I saw it. The same thing with the bedroom shot, and I don't fully understand that, but um, yeah, it just means we need to resolve the focal length and go on.

Oh, it's tracking the mat? Yeah. Okay, great.

Joe: Just figured it'd be easier this way. 

Eliot: Yeah, sounds good.[00:59:00] 

Okay.

Joe: I might not even have needed to track it, but it's okay.

Okay.[01:00:00] 

Okay, we'll leave it at that for now. 

Eliot: There we go. 

Joe: Yeah, looks pretty good. I think that's good enough for this. Um, should I just, well, let's see, maybe it'll just show me the preview of the render.

Uh, maybe, let me send this, I'll send the background to After Effects also. 

Eliot: That's interesting. I've never actually seen the workflow, the premiere after effects workflows as is useful for me to see how they do it. 

Joe: Oh yeah, no, uh, okay. So

did you come in at 30? Yeah. [01:01:00] It likes to do this.

Okay. Okay. So now, uh, so it looks like it might be like a frame. Oh, right. But does it, isn't it? Because it starts at like zero zero. Wait, no, that's blender. I was just like, it looks like there might be one more frame here, but

Eliot: where's the frames. Yeah,

Joe: so it's like it didn't make it 24.

Yeah, because that's where it ends at 30. Now, let's [01:02:00] make it 24. It

extends, but no, it doesn't. That's weird. 

Eliot: Uh, so is it running, is it running out of, running out of background frames? Yeah, it's running out of frames 

Joe: even though I made it 24, so it should have Um, 

Eliot: let's make sure we've got the right number of frames. Let's just kind of do our quick frame count. What's how many, uh, all right.

So let's, uh, let's check first things first. Let's check our in and out frames in auto shot. Um, so in is 1934, 2042. So there should be about 90. Let me write, calculate 

Joe: nine frames. 

Eliot: What's 109 frames. Okay. Um, all right. And then let's, let's double check to see that we rendered 109 frames in our, in our, uh, CAM original directory and our, in our render EXR directory.

Oh, render [01:03:00] EXR. Okay. Yeah. It was just kind of walk through and make sure, look for the, uh, yeah. 108. Yeah. Okay. So we might be missing one, but it's a different thing. Missing a lot more than one here. Um,

where did it go? Is it, is it. Importing it earlier before frame zero, something weird like that. 

Joe: No, I mean, they're that's frame zero, right? Because you can see the one frame off there at the end, you see that? 

Eliot: Oh, interesting. Okay, so why is it disappearing? 

Joe: That's weird. I have no idea why. That's strange.

Usually if you change the frame, it'll stretch it out to fill that, it doesn't.

Let me try re importing the image sequence directly to here. 

Eliot: [01:04:00] We can also try our re import script. Let's see if that works. 

Joe: Oh, yeah. No, that's a good idea. Let's, let's do that instead. Let's actually, yeah, let's just go to 

Eliot: Unreal. Let's go to others and just hit save and run. There you go. Camera frames already pulled.

All right. That sounds good. So scripts, uh, yep. I'll open up there and copy the, and just do a new project. 

Joe: Oh, new project. 

Eliot: Yeah. 

Joe: Oh, right. Cause it makes the whole thing. 

Eliot: Yeah. 

Joe: Yeah. He, 

Eliot: wow. Scripts, scripts, run script. Fix the

address. There it is. That's the one. 

Joe: So, meat, potato, salads. 

Eliot: All right. So let's see. Should have brought in both the [01:05:00] original, probably 

Joe: 24. Okay. So that made it, so let's change you. 

Eliot: Oh, hang on, hang on. Before we do anything, I wanna see what it's, uh, look, can you cancel that for a second? I wanna see if it, if it, uh, if it imported it.

Oh, so it thinks it's 30. That's weird. 

Joe: Yeah, it always does that. Anytime out of Unreal, I've noticed it, it just defaults to 30 frames. And, and like, I've even seen other videos where people are like, you got to change this. Can 

Eliot: you go back to Unreal? I just want to, I want to track that down. Can you go back to Unreal?

I thought we programmed level image sequencer to come out at 24. Okay. So the image sequence is 24. 

Joe: And then our movie render queue was also 24. 

Eliot: Yeah. I'll put frame rate. So that's correct. So why is it coming in on after effects is 30? Okay. Alright, okay, so those settings are all what they should be.

Alright, so let's look at After Effects. Okay, so now we That's, that's interesting to know. Just 

Joe: try Cause this should, that should do it. [01:06:00] That, that's like, I've, I've had this before. It's not like radically uncommon. Okay, so now here, let's see. So there's the background. Cutting out after this, but now it should continue once I accept that.

Okay, so now it's continuing. There. Okay. So That's good. Yeah, that's good. Um, so this was, I think you already applied a little key light thing there. Yeah. 

Eliot: There's a key light to, they can 

Joe: have 

Eliot: to reset the green. It's going to be set to some random default default sample.

Joe: Uh, let me,

it's like, yeah, after effects there's, there's a number of like handy little, you know, it's [01:07:00] it's interface makes a lot of sense, I guess maybe just cause I've been using it for so long, but. Okay, so that should, okay, now let's get rid of you.

That's fine. I, I, that's weird, that's giving me, I had it better in the other one. Oh, that's right, because I had the map around it. I was like, what is that garbage?[01:08:00] 

What happened to my Oh, it brings the clip as an image sequence too, got it. Right. Right.

Okay, so should be probably get most

so let's just, you know, that's a rough math there. Okay. So now scale you up.

Okay. Now let's see what we get.

Okay. That's already looking a lot better. 

Eliot: Yeah, I, I'm going to make a guess because because now we have like, The live action resting directly on top of the CG, we're still going to [01:09:00] get some slip. Um, but that's, you know, if it was on a pedestal in the background, then we'd be fine. But I bet we're going to, we're going to need a little bit of post work on this, but that's fine.

That's, this is literally the next tutorial I'm doing is, is the hardcore Unreal post tracking, you know, sub pixel kind of, kind of stuff 

Joe: to get, 

Eliot: get exactly in this stuff.

Yeah, it's closer, but you can, you can see it bouncing back and forth, which is, yeah, that's what I'd expect. That's, that's a, that's a very visible, exposed, exposed scene. 

Joe: Okay. All right. But so far it's all working. Yeah, it's working, working 

Eliot: the way I'd expect, you know, like it's brought the, brought the frames in, brought in the, the, the pieces in, rendered it, you know, things showed up where they're supposed to be.

The scripts ran. Now we just need to get some more tracking precision. And then, then I think we're going to be going to be after the races. Okay. But yeah, that's, that's, uh, and the, and I think. As I, as we, as we talked about, we're going to rethink our after effects. [01:10:00] Uh, you know, the, I think the existing bringing in the, um, you know, the, the two image sequences, that's working fine.

Uh, but we need to bring in the 3d in a better way, um, where we, we bring it in like, like as a USD file and then it's just, then it's real 3d now, then, then if you want to do stuff in after effects, then things are, things are doing, doing the things they should be doing. 

Joe: So am I, so are we at like the max of where I can take this at the moment?

Like, cause then, so now is it like, I would send it to synth eyes type deal. 

Eliot: Yeah. To get, if we're going to, if you're going to have the, the live action foreground parked directly on like a CG pedestal with that visible scene, we got to go through synth eyes. That's that's a sub pixel track. Uh, fortunately that's what we're doing.

What I'm, what I'm working on next. It's not done yet. Um, but that's, that's what I'm literally going through the details of that. Okay. 

Joe: All right. So yeah, 

Eliot: I mean, I'm going to go through it and. I have round one and, uh, uh, there's, you know, [01:11:00] my God, it's, it's, uh, there's some details to get right with all this stuff, but we're, we're, we're getting there.

Joe: Okay, sweet. Yeah, no, this is, this is super helpful. Just like, I'm already understanding it more and it's making more sense. Just kind of having gone through this with you. Um, and just like seeing, like shooting it into blender and all of, and, and like, you know, 

Eliot: this is cool. It's the same concepts on all the different packages.

Scene locators, you know, image sequences referencing, like, it's, it's just like, okay, we're the hide the button this time , you 

Joe: know? No. Yeah. I mean, this is cool. Like, now, now I feel I feel much better about stuff that doesn't have any, uh, grant plane contact. You know what I mean? Like, right. See that, like, that's, that would, this would be good if, if I, if I couldn't see the base of it, then that track would probably sell.

Eliot: Yeah, yeah, because then if it's especially it's in the background or something like that, then you Oh, yeah, 

Joe: definitely. If it's in the background, you know what I mean? And like, even if we just sort of so okay, so then I guess [01:12:00] from here, if I wanted to change, like, if I wanted to adjust the camera, I guess.

Well, no, I guess I could because it's just locked. Okay. So If you 

Eliot: wanted to do things like back in Unreal, you can move the scene locator up and down. If you want to have this right on a higher pedestal or something like that. Yeah. You just move the, move the, yeah, 

Joe: send it out. And, and, uh, so, right. So then, but, but I got this from Jet Set or from AutoShot.

So, cause when we brought it from Unreal direct, like when we did, we were having this weird frame that, that shit, so if I updated it in Unreal, I wouldn't. Well, 

Eliot: if you update Unreal, and you, 

Joe: and you, 

Eliot: Ah, okay. Uh, all AutoShot did is it opened up the, um, It made it a comp, and it's referencing the image sequences.

So if you go into Unreal, and you change it, re render, It's just going to re render over the old image sequences. And you should be able to, I don't know exactly what [01:13:00] the tools in After Effects, Yeah! You already have image sequences. You just re update the image sequences. And then it should be like, look, it's just, it's reading the exact same frames off disc.

So you should be able to, we can try it. You want to try it right now? Let's go try that. Let's go back to Unreal. Cause this, this is where it's this, this is where it's fun. Right. Is where you start having fast iterations. So let's go, let's go find our, our, uh, level sequencer. Um, or actually you can just, in your outliner, you can just grab hold of the, uh, the, um, uh, the scene locator.

Uh, not, not the, yeah, the spawn scene locator, this guy. There you go. Um, and actually you can grab hold of him and go down to the location and just, uh, up the Z. Let's just try that. Oh, yeah, there we go. That's cool. 

Joe: Yeah. 

Eliot: All right. 

Joe: Yeah. Let's just say that. Right. And then you wanted to be higher and on there.

Yeah. Okay. So this is a good example because this one doesn't have a ground plane contacted. Right? So 

Eliot: now let's try movie render queue. You know, let's, let's go back to, and we, you know, we might, if we're going to try this [01:14:00] a little bit more, we would want to make sure that our scene locator like matches, you know, the grand pod spot, but that's fine.

Um, yeah, let's go back to our movie render 

Joe: and just overwrite it. Right. Yep. 

Eliot: Let's render it. Okay. It should just overwrite it 

Joe: and we'll look 

Eliot: at it in After Effects. Yeah, this is, this is the, gives them, gives everything's in a standardized spot, right? Cause we already scripted the output locations. We scripted the file names and this kind of stuff.

And so then we, you know, render this, pop it over to After Effects and we'll see, we might have to reload a cache, you know, in After Effects. We'll have to check how After Effects does that. I know in Nuke, what you just do is you disable and re enable the node and it reloads, same thing with Fusion. Oh, filled it right.

Oh, let's see. Oh, okay. It may be, okay. It may be, be worried that it doesn't want to overwrite files. So let's, let's go ahead and delete the files. Then we'll, then we'll just re render it. Um, there, and there may be an overwrite switch buried in unreal somewhere, but we can also just delete the files. 

Joe: Yeah.

We'll just keep it simple.[01:15:00] 

Eliot: See, uh, Oh, you know what? Cause probably after effects is, has that particular file loaded. There we go.

All the details. 

Joe: Yep. Yep.

Eliot: That guy

is it was premier. It looked like it was trying to. It's a premiere. Yeah. Oh, 

Joe: okay. Interesting. 

Eliot: Oh, because we had that clip loaded in.[01:16:00] 

Come on. 

Joe: Go. P. U. Crash. D3D device. I've gotten this before. Have you seen this? Is 

Eliot: that a premiere thing? 

Joe: No, this is actually Unreal, I believe. 

Eliot: Oh, all right. 

Joe: Um, I've gotten them. Okay, so that, yeah, see there, Unreal just crashed. Yeah, so. And why would it? Okay, oh wait, no, we didn't. I was like, we, we didn't render it yet.

Oops. So let's do that now, quick. 

Eliot: I'm trying to think of why Unreal would crash. Should we, I could see it having problems if we deleted the camera EXRs, because it's reading that as a sequence. But Unreal, once it's rendered the. Yeah, right. It's our sequence. It 

Joe: doesn't have to anything. It's 

Eliot: just a file.

We'll have to look at that a little bit more closely.[01:17:00] 

Joe: Uh,

oh, hopefully it's saved. We'll see. 

Eliot: Yeah, it's pretty easy to fix if it's saved.

Joe: I just didn't save any shit. 

Eliot: All right. We'll just grab ahold of that guy and move it off, move him over to the side.

Joe: So you're out 

Eliot: of here.

Joe: Come on.

It's 

Eliot: [01:18:00] I'm being 

Joe: happy right now. Why aren't you responding? What is this?

Eliot: We're grabbing. Um, yeah, it's just 

Joe: not okay. So the weird, yeah, just not responding to any of my mouse movements. Um, 

Eliot: well we can try manually adjusting. So like entering, entering the location as a. Okay, there we 

Joe: go. Let's do that, okay. Uh, alright, and then we need to run our 

Eliot: script. Actually, we, it should, is the script already, let's, before we rerun it, let's look at our level sequence to see if it saved anything.

Oh, sure. Uh, let's take a look in there. Um, 

Joe: oh. Level sequence. Oh, no. 

Eliot: We can actually just look in the content drawer. 

Joe: Oh, in the content drawer, okay. 

Eliot: And [01:19:00] then look under autoshot, and let's go into our 

Joe: Yeah, it would be in here. 

Eliot: Okay, uh, nope. Okay, so 

Joe: there, isn't that, that's the clip. So, okay, so it did remember that, but no level sequence.

Eliot: Yeah, no level sequence. I think the level sequence got, got crunched. Okay, um, you can go ahead and, we can go ahead and delete that, that one, so we don't accidentally, you know. 

Joe: So just delete all of this? Okay. 

Eliot: Uh, yeah, just that particular folder. That should be fine.

Joe: Are you going to go away?

Okay. This is actually good. It's good. Yeah. Do this again and get it in my muscle memory. Okay. So 

Eliot: save and run. Yep. Let's do it. Although, actually, you know what? On this camera, instead of the 2160, let's just set our resolution to 1920 by 1080, and that'll save ourselves some button clicks. [01:20:00] There we go.

Alright, now we can paste that. 

Joe: Uh, and I, it was fireplace one. Ah, okay, see? I gotta remember. Oh. Yeah,

yeah, this is where it's like, especially at the beginning, like some of those crashes and things happening. I don't mind because it's like, okay, 

Eliot: right, right, 

Joe: over and over again. So I get it in my bones. 

Eliot: I've seen locators 

Joe: show me the magic

Eliot: thinking. 

Joe: Oh, 

Eliot: there we 

Joe: go. Cool. And then so we can turn

what is this weird. Okay, so we can turn you off. And then we can, uh, right. So I should be able to just move this, um, yeah, you're 

Eliot: moving the [01:21:00] scene locator, you know, uh, you can move it up a little bit or wherever. 

Joe: So let's just say here and then, uh, I guess it doesn't matter for this case. Okay, and then I want to come down here to the LightCraft.

Oh, wait, is it AutoShot? Yep, AutoShot, then we're gonna 

Eliot: Well, we, we, if we're just re rendering, we don't even need to bother, uh, re redoing the material here. 

Joe: Oh, right. Cause I'm just going to, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 

Eliot: So we can just go to the, uh, the level sequence 

Joe: and 

Eliot: make sure our cameras, uh, cameras locked and, uh, uh, Oh, wait, I was just on a sequence.

Okay. There it is. Let's scroll up a little bit, make sure our camera is, uh, Oh, 

Joe: right. That 

Eliot: yes, 

Joe: get rid of the key frames on that guy, 

Eliot: you know, and we can do it. But again, we're, we're not rendering that part of it, you know? So we don't, for the time being, we don't need to need to worry about it. [01:22:00] 

Joe: Oh, wait, no, the camera doesn't move.

Okay. Okay, cool. Right. 

Eliot: Yeah. So just go ahead and let's, uh, scroll up a little bit and let's, let's lock our camera. Uh, in the level sequence, let's hit that little camera button. So that's locked to our, our viewport is locked to that. There we go. And then we can just render. Um, 

Joe: okay. 

Eliot: And there's our config.

Yep. 1920 by 1080. All right. Let's try rendering this guy. See how this is going to behave. See if Unreal will give us any more surprises. 

Joe: Oh, yes.

Eliot: Oh, we have the scan active. 

Joe: Oh, 

Eliot: of course. That's what's going on. 

Joe: What does this key enact? I thought I, I thought I clicked off that, but let's see. 

Eliot: You may need to unspawn it. Yeah. [01:23:00] Okay. That's it. And you can unspawn the image plate too. That's probably not a bad idea. Let's make sure nothing weird shows up.

And, uh, actually up a little bit. That's it. That's the one.

Maybe save. Oops. That's alright. Try rendering.

And I'm going to have to jump in about a couple of minutes, but 

Joe: no, I have to do the same. I have another call at 10 30. So I just, uh, but this is cool. Thank you. 

Eliot: That's good timing. There we go. There's our, there's our frames. 

Joe: Okay, cool. Yeah. I'll just, I'll play around and do the same thing that I did. Um, but this is awesome.

I'm, I'm learning. This is, this is so, this is great. 

Eliot: Oh, perfect. 

Joe: Yeah. That's cool. And then it seems like, cause that's what I wanted to know. I was just like, when I see this, the track slip in a little bit, I'm like, wait, am I, is [01:24:00] that. Just the extent of it before we need to send it to synth eyes, or did I do something wrong?

So 

Eliot: yeah, 

Joe: I think that's, yeah, no, that, that like, I'm like, okay, so I'm just pushing it to the, uh, when the 

Eliot: joint is like right here in front of the camera, you're like, yeah, this is, there's a limitation to what we can get out for real time tracking. And we're, we're going to run into it. I 

Joe: mean, sure. What you guys have been doing, like, it's insane already from there.

Uh, yeah. So it's like, I mean, what matters is, and I mean, obviously eventually it'd be cool. Cool. You know, as things go on to be able to, but just the fact that it can is what's important. So it's like, I don't want to take another step to get there because I know product stuff. Cause I want to be telling, cause they have an office in New York.

So I want to be like, Oh, do you get a product thing there? We'll just shoot a nice plate of it. We can pull it out, you know, with that tracking information that we have. And then I could just put a new background or put a new thing in. If you're like, we're unable to like get the product, you know, just things like that, where they're like, Hey, we have this clip.

You know, when we need things to get like done [01:25:00] to it. All right. So 

Eliot: yeah, let's see, let's see if this came in. Yeah, it's, it's once you know where all the, the, the, the steps are, right? Yeah. So then you can be a little, looking at a project, like, okay, this shot's going to work without it. This is once we're going to need to refine it.

This is, you know, and then, then it's, then, then it starts to be inside your head. And then, then that's, that's when you're that person, right? And the producer's like, you know, and you just know like, okay, the shot, we're gonna, we're gonna refine this shot's gonna be fine. 

Joe: Okay. Yeah. There, uh, yeah. 

Eliot: Let's play it.

Let's make sure. 

Joe: So it just, it works. 

Eliot: Yeah, let's, let's play it. Let's make sure we have, have, uh, you know, all the things are showing up kind of aligned and. In time and that kind of stuff, but it should just be another frame sequence.[01:26:00] 

Yeah, there we go. 

Joe: All right. 

Eliot: It's funny. You put the joints a little bit further away and they're like, Hey, we're there, this is, this is like, and I always try to get this across verbally. Like that the tracking is a function of like, how visible is your join? You know, it tells you a great deal about, about it, but you know, it's fun to go through it and see like, all right, you know, this, Uh, we, we, we changed the, 

Joe: i That's not bad though, man.

We're, it's close. Like considering there's just a little sliding and it's like a little, so it's, and you're already working on that tutorial. Like this is fucking awesome, Elliot. You are the man, . 

Eliot: All right, see you guys soon. I'll see 

Joe: you on the next one. All right, thanks. 

Eliot: No worries. Bye.